Christianity

[Locke]

On a brief note I would like to say that my aim with this thread is not to offend anyone in any way shape or form. If possible I'd like for anyone posting to not attack any person or their beliefs directly, only express educated opinions or beliefs with no hatred behind them. Please, try and get along on this thread, and if you don't have something serious to toss in, don't post here. Please. Also, try to keep an open mind. It helps foster thought.

I'd like to look at Christianity, mostly because it's the only religion that I am quite familiar with. - There are many different sects preaching tolerance and love of one another, yet in the past there were bloody wars causing widespread death to the other. Why couldn't they just have sat down and had a debate.

That's what I'd like to toss out for starters, but feel free to toss out coments (serious ones) or queries about Christianity in this thread, and hopefully we can get a good discussion going.

[Geosgaeno]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd like to look at Christianity, mostly because it's the only religion that I am quite familiar with. - There are many different sects preaching tolerance and love of one another, yet in the past there were bloody wars causing widespread death to the other. Why couldn't they just have sat down and had a debate.

well Christianity is made up from a variety of denominations for example Roman Catholics, The Baptists, Methodists and so on, and way back in the old times i would think that all these denominations wanted theirs to be the biggest and best denomination and so they would fight to try and do this, sounds silly because they are Christians who wouldnt want death and/or violence. Well thats what i believe would have happened but i cannot be certain and i am probably wrong???

[baron]

actually I think Locke was refering to stuff like the holy wars of the 11th-14th centuries. normally against the muslims. Personally I think the whole exercise was pointless, but then when has war (yes even holy ones) have a point.

[Astrolounge]

Well, up untill only a short time ago, Catholics and Prodestants still shot each other on sight, and I think they still might in some places.

[Lord Draud]

i find all reliegions a pointless wast of time, if you need to be told whats right and wrong ( and thats all they are good for) then you need more help then what god can give you

[Geosgaeno]

Originally Posted by Astrolounge

Well, up untill only a short time ago, Catholics and Prodestants still shot each other on sight, and I think they still might in some places.

i think this still happens in certain areas of Northern Island?

[Astrolounge]

Iceland or Ireland?
Or somewhere else entirely?

[Geosgaeno]

damn spelt it wrong, its supposed to be Northern Ireland, well that has ended any confusion i hope.

[jetblue]

I heard someone call it Irishland the other day.

[M.H.A.Q.S.]

There was never a conflict in the sematic religions. The reason there were disputes was the "appearance of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) predicted in the Torah and the Bible". The wars that you talk about, Locke, are between the Arabs and the Romans. When the muslims started spreading in the area. There were some major religions at that time, which included Judaism, Christianity and Idol Worship (not to be confused with Buddaism), and none of these wars were against or amongst the sematic religions. Judaism had a hard time, when they saw the predicted Prophet showing up on the wrong side (according to their history).

The reason that there exist differences between all the religions cannot be determined easily. No religion in the world had anything negative preached in it. The main difference is in the Concept of God & his revelations. Christianity has changed alot from the time it was revealed. The Bible can't be called the original form of its true revealed self, according to history. The reason was its late writing, way after the death of the Christ-Jesus (PBUH).

I would like to discuss this topic in a very friendly manner too. So, lets talk about this!

[jetblue]

Yeah the bibles are'nt the same. When I was a kid my dads library had lots of old bibles that were huge and smelly and full of chapters that werent in modern bibles. But they were illustrated with colorful pictures so it got my intrest. I remember the pictures felt like ridges on a finger print.
I learned later that the old bible was just about cut in half by the byzantine emperor (not sure wich one)over a thousand years ago and many chapters were removed and the new bible was also adopted by rome and the pope.
Some churches still use the chapters that were cut out. I guess up to a few hundred years ago. Depending on wich chapters they wanted to keep in.



I remember my dad selling many of his books and the bibles for drug and drinking money to these guys that would come to the house. I wish I could of hidden one.

[Lord Draud]

i still have yet to believe realy that we opened this can of worms, i am just timeing to see how long it takes for some fringe fanactic to come on erhe and spread the hate

[Geosgaeno]

its one of those potential argument threads isnt it, im staying away.

P.S. sorry for not writing on topic just then

[Galthol]

Originally Posted by jetblue

I remember my dad selling many of his books and the bibles for drug and drinking money to these guys that would come to the house. I wish I could of hidden one.

Jet, that is possible one of the saddest tales I have ever heard. You have my deepest and sincersest condolences. May what ever dieties or powers you belive in guide those books back to you your hands.

[Astrolounge]

I believe in god, but I don't trust the bible as far as I can throw it.
If you ever played "Broken Telephone" as a kid, then you know why I don't think it could possibly be correct of itself.

[TheDragonKnight]

hear hear, and during the game your only speaking one language, imagine if everyone in the circle each sopke two languages the language of the person on their left and right, and you were hopping languages each time as well?

now lets add in the publishers, bibles that take a very ahrsh view of homosexuality sell better than the more moderate ones, now what do you think gets published more as a result?

[Pezito]

Very interesting posts here ; I think Astrolounge's remark about the "broken telephone" game (here we call it "arab telephone", I don't know why ^^) is quite relevant.

To me, the problem doesn't come from religion but from those who have a use for religion : men (I mean humans, sorry ladies ). As most, if not all, religions point out, men are fallible and make mistakes ; as such, a faithful transmission of God's words is impossible. Each iteration of the cycle will distort what's supposed to be the Truth, each writer will have an influence on the text, each evolution in language and culture will lead to more interpretations that might differ from the original meaning... All this leading to religion being as moldable as any other aspect of our society and ways of life - it just evolves accordingly to our current views or needs.

So when people go at war, as sad as it is, I think religion isn't really the root of evil because if it wasn't for religion, it would be for another supposedly self-righteous motive. Life itself is a fight, from micro-organisms to vegetables to animals to humans ; you can fight for food, territory, sex, defense, even a virus can push you to fight (rabies)...

The problem with religion is that it touches the very heart of anything a person can believe in ; it comprises your own understanding of people, life, and the universe... Quite a hot topic, especially when someone wants to prove you're all wrong and everything around you is NOT the way you thought it was. And unfortunately, people with power know that religion is an effective tool to control the masses. Most of the time you don't need to do much - just push them in the direction you know will give the best results ; then it's all a matter of power and politics. Which doesn't mean it's all the leaders' fault ! They can't change people's mind, do they ? All they want is to gain more trust and power from the people (it's sort of their job ), and to achieve that they only need to make the choices and say the words that best fit the people's opinion at a given time. So, I think people affect their leaders' decisions because the leaders want to please the people and get more benefit in the process ; and then, the leaders affect the people back by pushing them in that direction, by giving a voice and a power to the general opinion, by representing them.

So as long as some people disagree with some others, as long as a conflict is possible and either side has something to win in the process, any matter can be the firestarter. Most of the time it is religion, but when religion is not involved, people always find something - philosophy, race, demographic differences, unemployment, fear of the unknown (like... weapons of mass destruction ), historic resentment... The important thing not being that everyone goes at war for the same reasons, just that they all agree on going to war.

Oops, old habits... I always write too much (I mean this isn't even about Christianity anymore ) ! My last comment : "a good compromise leaves everyone unhappy". Which is why so often, debating and compromises aren't enough to calm down each side's anger !

All right am I totally off-topic ?... XD

[Astrolounge]

Very interesting posts here ; I think Astrolounge's remark about the "broken telephone" game (here we call it "arab telephone", I don't know why ^^) is quite relevant.

Have you ever used one there? Then you know your answer...

Anyway... I do not belive that religion spreads good, nor does it spread evil, or neutrality...
Mostly it gives some people hope in their lives, and causes some of the largest clusterfuck's in the history of the world.

[TheDragonKnight]

fun fact: humans have spent more time killing eachoter in holy wars or "in the name of god" than all other conflict combined

(though the jews would tell you ww2 should be included in that im not including it as a religeous conflict)

[M.H.A.Q.S.]

Most of the religions that people believe in today are just to let them believe in what they can't understand. Hope is there, I agree. For a religion, it is necessary to give the people following it, a way to live their lives. So that it forms a complete system and not just puppets that keep bowing their heads in front of their God.