Teacher vs. Student

[BAMAToNE]

Basically, this teacher is gung-ho about the use of force during the announcements/Pledge of Allegiance, requiring the students to stand. He also seems to enjoy yelling down to them, and in this case pulled the chair out from under the student in question. The teacher has yet to be punished, but the student filming it was suspended because filming the teacher violated the teacher's rights.

What say you?

Link to article with video
Direct link to video

[daniel]

requires no thought. Answer, teacher should be punished.

[Ephraim]

Agreed, I think the threat of violence claims a higher priority than such a minor violation of rights (and I mean minor, relative to the teacher's own actions)

[silverDistortioN]

in what way was that even remotely unconstitutional? surveillance is legal as long as at least one of the parties being taped is aware of it. or do they plan on repealing that law?

and in what way is pulling the kid's chair out from under him while refusing to stand even remotely lawful?

if they don't at least suspend the teacher, i could see legal action being taken against both him and the school.

[Lord Draud]

man this is one more case of stupidy, in canada we stand for our anthem and anyone that does not gets sent to the office in the us the teacher beat there students if they don't, here is my fix for it sif the kids don't stand for the anthem shot them, if anyone complains shot them ITS YOUR COUNTRY DAMN IT and while you might not agree with it stand up and show your still willing to work to change it or move to canada or your greatest allie mexico!

FUCK BUSH peace

[Mithrandir]

Er...Lord Draud, this might have happenned in one of our canadian schools so please consider that before even saying anything about the US...

I think for this, the teacher has to get punished in some sort of way, that kind of education is unacceptable. Okay the student did not stand up but heck that's not something you have to punish in that way. Instead of doing what the teacher did , I would have had a talk with him after school, trying to know exactly why he didn't stand up. In my opinion, no one should be forced to be to a certain level of patriotism. I mean, people are free to do whatever they want though sometimes it leads to stupidity.

As for the other student filming it, it's completely ridiculous that he gets sued for that....well...in this case. I'm not saying you can film anything anywhere.

So, yeah, and as for your Bush comment, you know, I don't really like Paul Martin at the head of my country...you know who i voted for at the last elections? Stephen Harper. There's more to politics that war and such, economy is also important for a country and Paul Martin has done nothing to help our economy (though it's doing great). Don't get me started about the Bloc (yeah I hate the bloc even if I'm from Quebec) or the NDP, they suck.

Speaking of Paul Martin, if he keeps our exterior policy, cause if we keep it that way, China is going to take our place at the top of the exporting countries. Did you know we are in the top on that? But Paul Martin refuses to do antything about that. What about subventions to poor countries. Sure, we get a good image,b ut did you know that money is distributed in countries where several violation occur on human rights? Does that money really goes to the poor people of those countries? I'm not saying we should stop sending money,I'm just saying,w eshould review our policies about that to makesure we really help and there's not some kind of disguised dictator that gets all the money.

But I'm getting off topic here ....

[daniel]

yeah i agree on that mithrandir...i like bush...paul martin seems too liberal too

[Marona]

agreed.person has a right to honor their country because they love the freedom or not because of the insanity.

If they force a person from another country to stand and they don't want to honor it,i would stand up.Even if they expel me.

oh yeh btw...suspending the boy..i think thats wrong because the teacher could have done things like this before and the people didn't believe him so he wanted to show proof.

[Lord Draud]

well considering that in canada we don't have the Pledge of Allegiance its sorta given what country it is. i was more pissed at the kid geting kicked outa school then the guy not standing realy, but it seems stupid not to stand for the country you choose to live in the anthem is not about what government is in power its about the nation as a whole! honesty i would tell off any one that did not show proper respect for they land they are standing on....this also goes towards lippy imergrents that think that life will be handed to them on a plater, i know lots and lots of hard working people that where not born here and they hate the freeloaders more then i do because they are begging and making them all look bad, but i regress to a earlyer topic sorry, oh and just so every one knows i voted Communist party i hate my government to but in the end i would rather stand and say I AM CANADIAN! then sit and go I AM NOTHING!

[TheDragonKnight]

Draud. the fourm rules say to add to the thread here, have you even read the article we have been linked to? i do not think you are helping this topic.

since the teacher was clearly flipping out <man what a spazz he needs some vacation time!> before the video started we cant really say who started it. however. it is his JOB as a teacher to NOT lose his temper like that regardless of provcation. this alone makes him bad it my book.

heres where it gets tricky however, canadian law provides for teachers to use coporal punishment on students, this is also the case in most states from what i can find, however the state this occoured in is one of the few to ban physical punishment of studients, so this teacher is clearly in voilation of state law, he cannot hide behind his position as a teacher. <the file i found only covered rulings up to 1992 though ifind it unliely that the state repealed its decesion to ban coporal punishment from schools almost 140 years after drafting it.>

this man clearly should not be a teacher. i have seen better teachers lose their careers over less <simple acusation of wrong doing>. One of the comments on the linked article suggeted the teacher be suspended without pay pending legal action. I would tend to agree.

[silverDistortioN]

just for clarification, most states have banned corporal punishment.

[BAMAToNE]

Everytime I see something like this or a free speech issue or anything, it makes me that much gladder I went to private school.

In public schools, it is not mandatory to say the Pledge. It is against the rules for that kid to secretly tape his teacher. It is also against the rules for that teacher to spaz out and verbally abuse a student. (You might say pulling a chair out from under a kid is physical abuse as well.)

My judgment: The suspension of the student for 10 days for taping the teacher was harsh, imo. Three days is plenty. However, the teacher should be placed on paid leave while an investigation is started to see if he really is fit to teach. If at the end of the investigation it is deemed that he is not, he is pink slipped. The wellbeing of the students far outweighs the teacher's right not to be secretly taped, imo.

[TheDragonKnight]

Having prsonaly been subject to the abuse of athourity figures my self i suppose my views on this are rather harsh towards the teacher however i would like to add. if they caught him doing this on tape with littel to no planning, what has this teacher done before this to makethe studients confident they could catch him going off the deep end like this?

<edit: as of the date of the artice i found it was still legal in 30 states (or was that not legal in 30 states? cant really remember. however as i sad before this article is out of date so i would not be suprised ifhte number of states that do not allow it have gone up>

[Blade Tanaka]

Well I know that imeadiatly I though the teacher should definatly be punished but lets review the facts here... Personally I belive the should be punished, there are other non-agressional ways wiht dealing inthese kind of situations.. ie metioned sending him to the office. and asking him to leave and telling him the importance of standing blah blah blah

Also I belive that the student should be punished. In a way wht he has done icpuld beconsidered a hat crime un or anti partiatism, as wel in dome casses I supose it could have meant a sense of terrorismin a gorvormental way

A for the guy who cougth this on film I belive he should be givena rewad/warning. What was brave and Benifical exploiting the unfortunate events like tis. But also in a diffrent senario what he did wAS wrong and unfortuantly unaceptable.

Thoughreally I'm just trying to include everuones side of this story and you may not agree but, hey! I'm jsut a kid right? ^o^

[TheDragonKnight]

Hate crime? terrorism? im sorry but ..ARE YOU STUPID?

i mean seriously, i can only assume you have no idea what a hate crime actualy is, and as for terroism? since this happened in teh US lets use the FBI's own definetion.

As defined by the FBI, "the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives". This definition includes three elements: (1) Terrorist activities are illegal and involve the use of force. (2) The actions are intended to intimidate or coerce. (3) The actions are committed in support of political or social objectives. (FEMA-SS)


according to this definetion you'd have better luck pressing the terrorism case agaisnt the teacher! infact from here it looks damn likely! its a shaky case i would admit but the teachers actions actualy fit this defination. Actualy its a litte disturbing how broad that defination is, the teacher is obviously not a terrorist.

but on to the body of your post. you say there are non-agressive (by which i take to mean non-voilent)solutions. except thats kind of a given here. in that state the only acceptable and legal ways to handle ANYTHING between a teacher and a student are without the use of force.

Silvers quoteing of the laws that apply show that the studient was not in voilation of the law (though im sure when that law wasa drafted it was envisioned to help invistigative services not a student making his teacher look like the fool his is)

im not sure about any of the rules that paticualr school may have but in the case of Legal vs Illgeal the teacher broke the law, the student did not. so far its still legal for someone to sit through the national anthem, of course just give bush some time, im sure if he sees this he'll be working on it.

[Blade Tanaka]

What about the cold war there was no force only a threat people pulling out more guns and threats bigger thatn the next not much force was taken but was still related to terrorism. I'm not saying the student did anything crimanal but it wsen' the best coasre of action there a better ways of proving a point then being in ignorant fool. I'm not really being on the teachers side either. From my stand point the only persons side I'm on id the one who caught it on film even then his outcome could have been worse too. ^o^

[TheDragonKnight]

The Former Soviet Union is not a terrorist orginazation, for one, though i fail to see how tht coudl relate to this topic at all. there is no comparison, War has rules and is legal, there are mandated standards for its formal declaration, rules on treatment of prisioners, and standards dictating what valid targets are. Terrorism has no rules. terrorists target mainly civillian centers (mainly becasue they lack the ability to inflict damage on military targets, though personally id say places like the pentagon and the white house are legitamet targets)

stop trying to change the subject, if you cannot see for your self that this couldnt possibly be an act of terrorism, just take my word for it.

[Blade Tanaka]

Okay let's drop the terrorism. (however it is not off topic to state my own opinion) You forgot one more thing that I meationed. "Un-Patiotic" I agree to whta Draud said. I would much rather say "I am Canadian" then "I am Nothing" What he did there says to me: " I don't belive in what passt generations have done to free me and my country. I don't belive in the wars fought by our ancestors. I don't Belive that the line "don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes.""Though I do not have much faith in the Amercans I do know that they started off as a great and nobal country. I also know that Bush has the potieial to make America a great country. I fell the reason he one the Elections was because of insted of standin there and saying "I promise you this and this" he said "this is waht I belive and this is what I will get you and this I do not tolorate" he gave his standerds out. But waht I fell this student has done should be punished because it is a disgrace to his nation. Most of all I would never do this because I AM proud to be Canadian. I AM proud that I am treatee with respect when i travel abroad. I AM proud that I hold my country with honor adn that I AM part of somthing great and that I do know it. That is why I belive the student should be punihed too. What the teacher did was wrong, but we cannot over look the student because the teacher should haev been setting the example. And most of all no argument will change my mind. NOT because I am ignorant or blunt and don't like to listen. In fact I ebjoy what you have to say and uderstand your point. But the fact is: this is waht I belive. ^o^

[TheDragonKnight]

check again, not being proud of your country isnt a crime! hell! were talking about highschool students i doubt hes politicaly motivated about this.

im happy for you that your proud of your country, thats good, your even prouder of your current leader, which is debatable, but again another topic, unless you can pull some miraclous terrorist connections out your ass linking these students to the WTC events or something i can only say your statments still lack anything in the way of facts, or even intelligence. you may not like the fact that he doesnt want to stand, BUT IF HE DOESNT WANT TO, ITS HIS CHOICE

[Lord Draud]

yes its his choice but it means he is not showing respect for his country and while i agree that in it self is not an act of terrorism it is the us we are talking about they banned flag burning and hell in some states you can be arrested for not taking care of your flag, they take respect for there country serously and if by high school you down know that standing for your anthem is a sign of respect for the land your on then what the hell are you doing in highschool? and yes yes i have read the artical and seen the video and if you can draw a line from point a to b to c you will see what iwas talking about but then again you where never all that intuitive