The Next Pope.

[Galthol]

Well the Pope jas died and as this is being posted they collage of cardnils has yet to elect a new pope. Now the Pope is one of the most influential reglious leaders in the world, decsions he make affect even non-christians. Is there anything you would like to see the next Pope do, and or say?

I personaly am hopeing for the cardinial from Nigeria, he would really help with all the problems in Sub-Saharan Africa.

[Grey Fox]

I hope he remains comitted and kinda right wing like John Paul. I do not want him:

Promoting homosexuals
Promoting Abortion
Promoting condoms (they should stop having sex or be steralised)
Promoting non Jesus ideologies

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T BE A CHRISTIAN

"get with the times"

And yes you can imagine Jesus saying that can't you! NOT!

[Geosgaeno]

i heard they are throwing away an old tradition this time around in the election process. in previous years they burned the ballot papers and let the white smoke come out of the Vaticans chimney to show the public a new Pope is elected, but for some bizarre reason this time they are gonna ring a bell?, how stupid throwing away an ancient tradition.

well i just hope whoever this Pope is sorts things out in Christianity and does a similar job to John Paul the second.

[Vidus]

I'm not very religious person so for me it is pretty much the same who will become the next pope ( not that I don't mind if the next pope would be Hitler fan. I'm sure they find a good person for "the job" .) It would be better that the person would be already old. I think that it isn't good to have the same pope for too long. I also think that the next pope could come from Africa.

About this pope's condom policy, I think it is a big problem in Africa. Those people really listen what pope say and because of that the AIDS-projects, which are mostly based on getting those people use condoms, fail.

[baron]

um, the bell is used to mark the death of the pope, not usher in a new one.

[Geosgaeno]

wrong, this year they are also using the bell to mark the election of the new Pope, they are doing it because people cannot tell the difference between black and white smoke (they must be blind idiots)

in the now 'old' tradition the,

White Smoke = Election of new Pope + the smoke is created by the burning of the ballot papers
Black Smoke = no Pope elected yet + the smoke is created by burning straw

[bjp4444]

actually, they are just adding the bells, the smoke will remain:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050406/ap_on_re_eu/pope_21 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050406/ap_on_re_eu/pope_21)

and they use special chemicals now. back in the day it was wet straw to create black smoke, and dry straw to create white smoke.

but in regards to the pope, i'm not catholic, so it really has no direct effect on me. but i would hope he will be as compassionate as JPII was. also, a representative from africa and latin america, when catholicism is going through its strongest and most strident growth and following, might be a good idea.

but that's just my two cents.

-bjp

[Lord Draud]

i personal think the the game of pope tag is something that should have died out long ago, i have no use for the RCC and no one i know likes then ether fro mthe billions spend on child molesting preists to the vatican secret libiarys ( ok not secret anymore but they still will only let you take out a book if you can name it so they are still hiding stuff) i distust them and dispise them i think that we should be rules by what we fel in our heart and not by what a guy in a big hat says!...... by the way i am the president of the Leage of extrodenary evil so take it as you will LOL :)

[Geosgaeno]

very bad post Draud, that is very offensive towards Roman Catholics (myself included even though i dont give two shits bout it), the Pope is regarded as a roll model just look at the crowds at the Vatican.

you mention about the guy wityh the big hat, dont you follow some Velsharoom blah blah or something, whats that all about, you must be following a leader or you would not support them. Every place on Earth is more or less ruled by a single guy. Like America has Bush and Britain has Blair, and Iraq did have Saddam.

Just to throw away the tag of Pope is a bad idea, it has been around for 2milleniums and to stop it all of a sudden would cause a ruckus in Christianity. i heard John Paul II was the 200+ direct decendant of St.Peter thats amazing.

[bjp4444]

i don't know about christianity, but certainly it would really flip around catholicism.

and i think draud was only bringing up one of the main criticisms that most protestets had when the reformation occured (although he certainly did have a unique way of stating it).

from what i can remember from my history colliquium on the conversion of europe from paganism to christianity and beyond (or whatever it was titled), people were getting upset about certain practices of the pope and the RCC. they basically had five tenants that go as follows:

1-“Sola Scriptura” or Scripture Alone: This affirms the Biblical doctrine that the Bible alone is the sole authority for all matters of faith and practice. Scripture and Scripture alone is the standard by which all teachings and doctrines of the church must be measured. As Martin Luther so eloquently stated when asked to recant on his teachings, "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."



2—“Sola Gratia” Salvation by grace alone: This affirms the Biblical doctrine that salvation is by God’s grace alone and that we are rescued from His wrath by His grace alone. God’s grace in Christ is not merely necessary but is the sole efficient cause of salvation. This grace is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that brings us to Christ by releasing us from our bondage to sin and raising us from spiritual death to spiritual life.



3—“Sola Fide” Salvation by Faith Alone: This affirms the Biblical doctrine that justification is by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone. It is by faith in Christ that His righteousness is imputed to us as the only possible satisfaction of God’s perfect justice.



4—“Solus Christus” In Christ Alone: This affirms the Biblical doctrine that salvation is found in Christ alone and that His sinless life and substitutionary atonement alone are sufficient for our justification and reconciliation to God the Father. The gospel has not been preached if Christ’s substitutionary work is not declared and faith in Christ and His work is not solicited.



5—“Soli Deo Gloria: For the Glory of God Alone: This affirms the Biblical doctrine that salvation is of God and has been accomplished by God for His glory alone. It affirms that as Christians we must glorify Him always and must live our entire lives before the face of God, under the authority of God and for His glory alone.




And, in a nutshell , there's the protestant reformation. They basically felt (at least IMO), that faith was something shared between an individual and God, and there shouldn't be an infallible middle-man (the Pope), to oversee everyone and make their own rules (which most Popes did back in the day).

I claimed I wasn't a Catholic, this is true. However, I was rasied as such. I left the church a while ago, since I feel that my personal relationship with whoever is up there (we can him/her/it God) is sufficient. I can certainly respect that the Pope's attempts to do good for many peoples around the world, but I also, persoanlly, am very skpetical about the religous aspects (read infallible human/closest thing to God on Earth) part of it. Does that mean i think the Pope needs to go away? No. But I do agree with draud when he says that a lot of changes need to be made within the RCC for it gain back alot of its past respctability. I hope that the new Pope can work towards that.

I just rambled and probably made NO sense. Sorry if that's the case.

-bjp

[Grey Fox]

Well DRaud has a thing about bad posts doesn't he.

AS for bjp he argues the opposite to anyone and anthing. I like tradition etc and want it to stay.

The main issue was whether he should change or stay the same, what we expect from the new pope.

I expect what I have said. To uphold the teachings of christ and not to waiver because of pressure from misguided missiles (and there are a lot of them)

[bjp4444]

AS for bjp he argues the opposite to anyone and anthing. I like tradition etc and want it to stay. please see bolded( and now, increased font) in my quote

Does that mean i think the Pope needs to go away? No. But I do agree with draud when he says that a lot of changes need to be made within the RCC for it gain back alot of its past respctability. I hope that the new Pope can work towards that. I wasn't trying to argue anything. I basically agreed with what the pope does now, and I was hoping the next Pope was similar to JPII. I do think the RCC(as the Pope is the leader of Roman Cathlocism, and not all of Christianity) needs to make some changes in regards to how they handle things (namely, the American sex scandals). But, all for all, I don't have a problem with the idea or the implimentation of a pope.(and I never said that I did) I was just trying to clarify draud's point, nothing more. And actually, I probably did a horrible job of it.

Thanks for listening
-bjp

[Grey Fox]

edited. cannpot be bothered arguing. its a waste of time as i saw in the past.

Grey fox out.

[BAMAToNE]

Here are my basic thoughts on the subject:

I don't think the position of Pope should be abolished. It is true that I had issues with this last one. I believe his inaction regarding the U.S. clergy abuse was criminal. Having said that, however, I also believe at that time he was so old and his mind was so out of it that he really could not function appropriately as the Pope. That does not excuse him, imo. This rule of Popes not stepping down is antiquated and should be dealt with. In fact, there was a just today regarding that. I don't know why he didn't make the decision.news story (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=4&u=/nm/20050407/ts_nm/pope_will_dc)

But the position of Pope still wields much power, and I think much good can come of it. John Paul II was still a good and moral man. He did a lot of good in his lifetime. I am not Catholic, but I recognize the need for a person like this in such a high place. The masses must have a moral compass, and I can think of few better than the Pope. I may not agree with all of his social stances (anyone who is against birth control should either enter the 21st century or practice abstinance) or even his political stances (let's not hear whether you're for or against some war please).

Anyway, I really do hope they do well picking the next one. A bad decision could be catastrophic.

[Lord Draud]

i think that i was not very clear, i LOVED the old pope, how ever i do not think that a pope should be elected by a closed off group of white men that have there own agendas ( all humans do and thouse with power more then most and they do have power) so they must elect one of there own ? imagen what sort of deals must be made. it has nothing to do with the good of all of man or even the good of all tehre followers, and what i ment by pope tag what that in high school my and my freind speculated that all the cardenals play a game of tag and the last one it after 30 minutes is pope, i think that it should be done on who has done that most good for they church not the one that has acended the ranks and now is currupt ( and any one with that much power has to be)

also i put a freaking :) and lol at the end of my post that mean don't take it to serously no need to give bad rep, BAD PERSON!

PS Velsharoon is a god from D&D i worship him cause i figured if i was going to worship a fictional being i might as well choose one for my self....

[Galthol]

Well I'm not RC heck I'm not even Christian, and while I do not belive in many of the policys JP promoted he was a vital part in the fight agianst Stalinism (a preveted form of comunism) and because of that to-day on the day of his funeral I chose to wear all black as a sign of moruning. No one noticed but that doesn't matter. A great man has died.

[BAMAToNE]

Lord Draud: Ah, ok. Well, I can't speak about the process of choosing a Pope. I do know there are over 100 so the majority has to come to some agreement about one of them. Even when they all have their own agendas that's tough sometimes. Compromise must be made eventually. I wouldn't know a better way to do it anyway.

Edit: Speaking of religion, there's a guy who stops by the UA campus every so often to tell us we're all going to Hell. Interesting story about it in the campus paper here (http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/04/08/42562b48d1342).

[Lord Draud]

so can i get my rep point back then? i like having some good rep rather then evil rep, makes me feel legitimet

[Locke]

Personally, I think that if they did ellect a black pope (no racism at all even remotely intended with that statement), it would be cool. I personally think that it would be a sign that times are changing for the better, and that society is begining to recognise equality on a global scale. Who knows, possibly a black president in the US. :D . JPII was a great man, but now that he has passed, it is time for a new pope. I guess we'll see how it goes. Good luck to whomever it is that gets elected this time round, and may he endeavor to do as great a job as his predecessor (sp).

[Geosgaeno]

the process of electing a Pope is ridiculous, all this new Pope will do is more or less the same as JPII, so why the deley, just elect one.

[Lord Draud]

meh i think it would be shame full if they have a black pope befor a black president of the US i mean it shows that american are even more hate full then church goers! ha and they are the ones that have been having holy wars for hundreads of years!

[silverDistortioN]

meh i think it would be shame full if they have a black pope befor a black president of the US i mean it shows that american are even more hate full then church goers! ha and they are the ones that have been having holy wars for hundreads of years!*insert same exact thing, except about canada not having a black prime minister*

you nazis!

[Locke]

The Church has been going on Holy Wars for years, yes. But they've also been a whole hell of a lot longer then the US or Canada, so it's more logical for them to make the change first. Personally I think all 3 could happen, but I'd be more concerned about what thoughts and practices came from the leader then what color his skin is. Personally, who really cares. If it's a good leader, then they election process did good, a bad one, then they screwed up.

[Lord Draud]

heh what america need is a half black half arab woman lesbian from the green party as the president....

[Galthol]

*insert same exact thing, except about canada not having a black prime minister*

you nazis!

However we have had a female Prime Minstier. Kim Campbell. (She was only in office for a couple of months or so but, meh)

[Lord Draud]

but its more then you racest sexist americans! :) but tis ok like they say in my telemarketing company "there just americans there not realy people, think of them as people and you just get angry"

[Mithrandir]

I don't really get your point Lord Draud but anyway...

For me , the next pope will not change anything in my life unless he really does something. It's not by politicising the church that we'll get somewhere. This is all politics and that shouldn't be the way.



We all know anyway that the next pope will be italian as the Italian mafia wants...I have no sources on this but believe me, my opinion is well founded

So this is my opinion. Abide by it or go to hell.

[Geosgaeno]

i believe the Cardinals have started the election process today????, am i correct????

[Galthol]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/04/18/vatican-sistine050418.html

Yes you are right follow the above link to the story from CBC

[Lord Draud]

heh nice dan/grey/yojimbo impresstion there and i agree unless he like declairs D&D out lawed and evil i won't care realy

[Geosgaeno]

Joseph Ratzinger is elected as the new Pope, i saw the announcement live, and he is not a black pope like some of you were hoping for, this new pope will be named.....BENEDICT 16th.

this post was wrote about 30secs after announcement, haha

[BAMAToNE]

I think I'm kind of disappointed with the decision. Apparently this guy is pretty conservative. Not so bad in and of itself, but so conservative that he's against birth control and contrceptives. I can't fault him for opposing abortion (even if I don't agree with him), but anyone who doesn't see why we should be pressing the issue of birth control and contraceptives is just deluding themselves. (Read: HIV/AIDS epidemics in India and Africa... Teberculosis epidemic in Africa...)

[Lord Draud]

bah, and he is german too boot ( note iam 4th german so no i am not being to mean) he was part of the Hitler youth it seems and if he is as conservitive as they say....well it jsut does not bode well i think i hope iam proven wrong

[Geosgaeno]

you mention he was in the hitler youth true but he ran away from the hitler youth and risked the firing squad, brave guy. after running away he joined the priesthood and worked his way through the ranks and now he is the Pope.

i believe this guy will just continue John Paul II work because they are both sort of the same, they believe the same stuff and so Benedict 16th will be a mirror image of JPII.

as for him being conservative, this is what the Cardinals wanted or else they would not have voted for him to become Pope and would have voted someone else.

[bjp4444]

I really think, and I'm not trying to be rude or mean, that he is a stop-gap. I really do think that someone else was wanted, but that the shadow of JPII was still too close.

I can make an analogy to sports, where a great, hall-of-fame coach retires after a long period of service. No matter how great the next coach is, he will never be thought of or reveared as much the previous one. I see this happening here. They want a great, influential pope, however, they realize that there's not a great chance of that happening right after JPII. So they have someone come in for a few years [5-10] and then bring in the new pope, I'm guessing from Africa or Latin America.

Like it or not, and although the Church does many , many great things for the poor and the sick, it is still, in ways, a business. It needs money to survive. That leads me to believe the next pope will be from Latin America or Africa, since that's where most of the Catholics in the world are. People are always more willing to give money when they see one of their own in lead. A harsh fact, but true in most instances.

So, this has been my conspiracy thoery for the day. I'm sure I'll end up being way off, and that Benedict XVI will be the greatest pope the world has ever seen, and live for 35 more years. But, looking at it for a while, this idea popped into my head. As always, never trying to offend.

-bjp

[Galthol]

Interesting Facts about PopesBenedict

One started the order of Benedicitan Monks
It was a Pope Benedict that started the Vactain (edit: Libary)
The Last one tried to stop WWI and failed
One was elected at age 11 regained and lost the papcy many times untill he was exocummunicated and thrown in Jail for selling the papcy to someone
One of the Popes Benedict was one of the Anti-Popes

[Geosgaeno]

One of the Popes Benedict was one of the Anti-Popes


how is this possible if he became Pope, did he change his beliefs from anti-pope at some point, thats my only explination for it????

[Ephraim]

If I remember correctly, there was a time when there were 3 popes, all claiming to be the only pope. They each excommunicated the other 2. Maybe this is what is being referred to? If not, I can't think of any other event.

[bjp4444]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01582a.htm

Apparently, an "Anti-Pope" was someone who decided they wanted to be Pope, and said they were, even though they wern't elected as such. I'm guessing that this guy has the support of some of the cardinals or some sect of the religion, therefore giveing him some credence to his claim. But how funny:

Pope #1: "I'm the Pope!"
Pope #2: "No, I'm the Pope!"
#1: "Am not!"
#2: "Are too!"
#1: "I'm taking my papacy and going home!"
#2: "Whatever!"

-bjp

[SeymourGuado]

An excellent choice for pope weldone!

Seifer Almasy

[Geosgaeno]

just thought id put the new Pope's picture in here for those who havnt seen him yet, but you should have seen him by now......well here is his picture anyway

http://img195.echo.cx/img195/7897/ratzingerdelete4qu.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Lord Draud]

yeap thats the new man next to god....he even looks german!

[Geosgaeno]

whats this Pope doing, i havnt even heard of what he is up to since his appointment, what the hell is going on?

[Lord Draud]

he is doing secret pope stuff like killing off all that oposed him and burning books in the vatican vaults... at elast thats what i would do

[Lord Draud]

grin i have found the names of all the popes, some are freaking funny like pope londo and did you know that the pope names peter the II will be the one that leads the earth into the apacolips?

[Astrolounge]

Interesting.
And Bulls***.

[oneforthelord]

I found that the last 3 posts added nothing in the least to the discussion. Serious discussions sections means...serious posts ok? Not nonsense please.

That aside, I guess no one really knows what the Pope does in secret except the inner most circle of the Catholic order. My guess would be that he is probably meeting up with everyone he needs to meet up with and getting educated in the things he needs to be educated in (etiquette, for example).

[Astrolounge]

As far as I'm concerned, religion has never been a serious discussion to me.
But I will try to post more relevant things.
Er... from this post on...

[Lord Draud]

HA this thread was dead and i desided to post the names of a few of the lesser known popes, how about pope innocent that killed 5 of his cardinals for no reson other then he thought they oppsed him on some meaningless matter