Terri Schiavo's Death

[Marona]

To me it seems it was right for her to die now.What is crazy is the parents still on the feud.

Since I talked with iceburner and my mom,I knew it was right for her to die because she was already dead.Her brain was already damage.

Parents can't let go of the ones they love.That is why the parents are on the feud still i think.

"The ones who want her to die are getting their wish..."

Maybe theres something to that...

[tanisthalon]

Sometimes letting go is the hardest thing anyone can ever go through. My heart and thoughts are with the parents, but as you mentioned and in addition I believe it was the kindest action taken by her husband.

[bjp4444]

yeah, i sorta agree. if that is what she wanted, then they should let her go. she'll be in a better place, and they should be happy that any suffering she was occuring is now over.

just reminds you, that at any age, you better let everyone close to you know exactly what you want for yourself in case of tragedy. i'm only 25, and i'm working on my living will. no age is too young.

-bjp

[Vidus]

This is one of those situations where it helps to understand the case when you imagine yourself at the same situation. If I would be in her situation, would I make the same decision as she did. I honestly hope that her husband made the final decision because he loved her so much and I believe he did.

[Geosgaeno]

im not in the daylight on this topic but i only know a few bits and bats, from the news reports and all, i think it was best to end the suffering and let the person in question die. hopefully in the near future the family will realise it was the correct thing to do. wasnt she being fed from a tube and then they disconnected it and that is how she eventuaslly died?, i dont believe it is right to keep a dead person alive its too artificial for my liking it isnt as if they are gonna make a recovery.

[Grey Fox]

I find it simply amazing that abortion is tolerated but keeping someone in a zombie state for years is acceptable also.

Surely abortion is worse as it is denying somebody (mainly healthy) the chance to life in the first place....

This woman should be able to die or abortion should be illegal also.

To have both is a blatant liberal load of horseshit

[bjp4444]

i said something, then decided it didn't make sense. totally disregard this.

-bjp

[Lord Draud]

she was brain dead, her cognitive centers of teh brain where mush, they should have let that bag of fleash die 10 years ago after it was quite aparent she would never get better, at least for an abortion the baby never reachs cognitive though, in the t\end the baby fetus had nothing to lose cause it was not a person ( i consider a person a being with memorys and expreainces that define it as a human not as a peice of living flesh that responds to stimulus) but she had a life and then it ended she was not teh person she was and thus she was already dead i feel sick that for 15 years this body was kept animate because her parents wanted to reemember her....

[Locke Cole]

It is sad to see anyone die, but I too believe it was the right thing to do. If I was in a state where I could not recover, I would want the same. I do not wish to live like that. Its sad to hear the extremes people are willing to go to over the situation, her husband has had death threads, people at the children's school shouting "murderers", their life has been ruined because the media so blantly exploited this. This should have been a private situation, I think it was wrong to make it a world debate.

I wish the best for the family now that this has passed.

[Ephraim]

Seems the poll is unanimous - 10 for, 0 against.

Speaking personally, if I were in that state, I would not wish my family to have to care for me like that, it's an exercise in futility. If I'm going to die, let me die.

[bjp4444]

basically what i was trying to say in my previous post was that i was very angry at the conservatives in congress and our president here in america for sticking their noses into a family matter, even though most polls would show that approx. 70% of Americans don't believe they should have done so. perhaps if they (and the prez's brother, the gov. of FLA) would have stayed out of it, the press coverage would have quieted down sooner, and this could have stayed smaller and personal. as of now, it's just way out of hand.

also, a lot of those people demonstrating outside the hospice made me sick also. if they were that worried about people in terri's condidtion, they would be outside the hospitals every day, and not just when the cameras are around. sometimes, i wonder if the whole thing is more about the protesters than the protest when it comes to things like this.

didn't try to offend here, if i did, i apologize.
-bjp

[Grey Fox]

It is sad to see anyone die, but I too believe it was the right thing to do. If I was in a state where I could not recover, I would want the same. I do not wish to live like that. Its sad to hear the extremes people are willing to go to over the situation, her husband has had death threads, people at the children's school shouting "murderers", their life has been ruined because the media so blantly exploited this. This should have been a private situation, I think it was wrong to make it a world debate.

I wish the best for the family now that this has passed.

Death threads? Here on rpgamers I hope not...there are plenty of threads here though....

ok bad joke on a bad topic?

Bjp, sometimes it takes a government to get involved. Personally I think it was right to let her die (although starving her was NOT the way, injection anyone?).

[bjp4444]

well, that's your opinion., in regards to governmental intervention. i really don't think the governement should be telling families if they can let a family member in a permanent vegatative condition die or not, but to each their own.

also, we had someone once who would help people like terri end their lives painlessly and humanely.(although, from all published reports, someone in terri's condition felt no pain anyways, and would not be in pain while going through starvation) his name was Dr. Jack Kevorkian. you know what they did with him? they threw him in jail. for muder, of course.

http://www.courttv.com/casefiles/kevorkian/kevorkian.html (http://www.courttv.com/casefiles/kevorkian/kevorkian.html)

-bjp

ps-i thought your joke was quite funny indeed.

[silverDistortioN]

terri was in a persistent vegitative state. there's a subtle difference between PVS and being brain dead. she probably could feel pain.

however, i think it's just as wrong to kill her as it is to force her to live... so i think removing the feeding tube was probably the best way to go. (i'm about 50-50 on whether it was right to remove the feeding tube at all, though. it was more a matter of who should have the power to decide her fate than anything else... but honestly, it wasn't really important enough for me to want to ponder.)

[Grey Fox]

terri was in a persistent vegitative state. there's a subtle difference between PVS and being brain dead. she probably could feel pain.

however, i think it's just as wrong to kill her as it is to force her to live... so i think removing the feeding tube was probably the best way to go. (i'm about 50-50 on whether it was right to remove the feeding tube at all, though. it was more a matter of who should have the power to decide her fate than anything else... but honestly, it wasn't really important enough for me to want to ponder.)

Terri would not have wanted to live, nor would any of us. It is the persons right to die. Injection is the same as pulling the feeding tube, the difference is the length of time it takes to die.

How anyone can call starvation humane is beyond me, she should have been put down if you will excuse the nastiness of how it sounds. If I were in the same position and could talk I would tell the protestors trying to keep me alive to go home.

Like I said, If we have abortion we should have her allowed to die. Not both. Its a contadiction (liberals again)

[bjp4444]

well, i just wanted to clarify that i never said that starvation was humane. i was just saying that, from news reports that i read, that she would likely not feel pain in response to it. actually, in most cases similar to terri's, where a tube is removed, patients claim to feel a sense of euphoria right before death.

also, again, it was the conservatives who were trying to keep her alive. both sides actually stayed consistent here (at least when it came to this case). in the US, it stacks up this way in regards to the two issues (this is how it looked to me, i guess):

conservatives: against abortion and against right-to-die
liberals: for abortion and for right-to-die

a then there's me: against most abortion, for right-to-die, and definetly for right-to-eat-cake.....http://www.rpgamers.info/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

but more than anything, i would say this has taught us to be open with our families and to let them know what you want in case you can't tell them. i, for example, would want to go if i was in a position where a majority of medical experts said i had no chance to recover. my step-father, on the other hand, has stated there's no was he'd ever want to be taken off the machines. that's why we all need to let eveyone know our wishes, so something like this doesn't happen. but, to each thier own.

peace and love
-bjp

[Grey Fox]

In that case I am still with the conservatives. Altough I disagree with Bush on this mostly (I can see this argument both ways), abortion is one of my pet hates. It should stop:) (I don't see any reason apart from rape that lets abortion exist, and today its just about slags spreading their legs then wondering why they are pregnant)

Its gone too far and the further it goes the further all this will come back to haunt us. You will see....

[Lord Draud]

well thats not true all the time grey, what if the condom broke and you could not in any way provide for the child? rather then stuff it in a over crowded orfanage i think that it should be aloud to die so as to save the family greif. i also thinkthat if the child would be mentaly or phisacly retarted ( or if you prefer disabled that two ) to the point that it could not function in life with out constent help the family should have the ablity to choose, now people would go on and on about if they did that there would be no steffen hawking, and all i have to say is so what? in the end another would have come to take his place in history! the only time ithink that it should be illegal is if the family can take care of it and the woman wahing the child is vain and does not want streach marks of something like that ( its happend and that pisses me off)

[silverDistortioN]

Terri would not have wanted to live, nor would any of us. It is the persons right to die. Injection is the same as pulling the feeding tube, the difference is the length of time it takes to die.the difference is the same difference between euthanasia and dying with dignity.

[Grey Fox]

the difference is the same difference between euthanasia and dying with dignity.

I may have misingterpreted what you said but are you saying that starving someone to death is a dignified way to kill someone off....you must be joking me!!!!

[silverDistortioN]

I may have misingterpreted what you said but are you saying that starving someone to death is a dignified way to kill someone off....you must be joking me!!!!then why do you support her having died?

[Grey Fox]

then why do you support her having died?

I support the fact that her dying in most ways are better thhan her living like that for any longer than her silly family wanted (15 years was enough already), but fast and easy death is miles better than slow starvation. Thats just common sense and its the way the majority would want to go if you asked them?

Which would you prefer?

[silverDistortioN]

Oh, and my vote's for lethal injection. if it's good enough for my dogs and for Death-Row inmates, it's good enough for me.i would prefer to starve.

...one of the reasons i don't have any strong opinions in this matter is because i'm not really sure how i would feel about it if i were vegetative. if i were in Terri's position, i seriously doubt i would have the capacity to care whether or not i die, in which case it would be best (for my family's sake, if they so desired) to keep me alive. but then again, my living wishes are somehow important or something.

[Grey Fox]

i would prefer to starve.

...one of the reasons i don't have any strong opinions in this matter is because i'm not really sure how i would feel about it if i were vegetative. if i were in Terri's position, i seriously doubt i would have the capacity to care whether or not i die, in which case it would be best (for my family's sake, if they so desired) to keep me alive. but then again, my living wishes are somehow important or something.

You would prefer to starve? I find that hard to digest but each to his own however crazy

[silverDistortioN]

but each to his own however crazyyes, i could see how people might think wanting to starve instead of being injected with some toxic concoction to be crazy... but at least i have my logic behind me.

[Grey Fox]

yes, i could see how people might thinking wanting to starve instead of being injected with some toxic concoction... but at least i have my logic behind me.

haha.....*daniel looks at me and gives a rhy smile*

[silverDistortioN]

whoops... it made sense in my head. >.>

[Grey Fox]

whoops... it made sense in my head. >.>

:nana: ahh I get back here when I have something better to say to this debate:) Useless just adding nothing:)

[bjp4444]

gosh, you should see half of the stuff i write here, before i edit it. it always makes sense in your head, that's the problem.

-bjp

[demalavor]

I was off by a day. I had her pegged down for april 1st, lost some money because of that. Hopefully I pick better for the pope death pool.

[silverDistortioN]

I was off by a day. I had her pegged down for april 1st, lost some money because of that.yeah, they totally should have left the feeding tube in longer.

damn communist march 31sters!

[Grey Fox]

I was off by a day. I had her pegged down for april 1st, lost some money because of that. Hopefully I pick better for the pope death pool.

Dan says pope won't make 3rd april (we shall see). Most lilkely 2nd or may already be dead I say

[bjp4444]

i'll give him twelve hours, if he isn't already dead, and they are just not reporting it.

very sad, although at this point, he should be extremely celebrated. i mean, he's one of the biggest reasons for the fall of communism in europe. (unlesss you think communism is neat-o, then he's your biggest enemy!)

-bjp

[Grey Fox]

i'll give him twelve hours, if he isn't already dead, and they are just not reporting it.

very sad, although at this point, he should be extremely celebrated. i mean, he's one of the biggest reasons for the fall of communism in europe. (unlesss you think communism is neat-o, then he's your biggest enemy!)

-bjp

I agree, and yes 12 hours is probably as good an estimate at this point as any. He was a man of Massive faith but more so was the fact he could take the shit and fight on i.e. parkinsons. Religious or not you gotta admire him:)

----and I just spoke in the past tense

[bjp4444]

very true. you may not agree with him when he talks the talk, but you have to admire he actaully walks the walk. with some many politicians saying one thing and doing another, his way of life is refereshing for that aspect alone.

-bjp

[Grey Fox]

very true. you may not agree with him when he talks the talk, but you have to admire he actaully walks the walk. with some many politicians saying one thing and doing another, his way of life is refereshing for that aspect alone.

-bjp

Religion should be like that just sticking to your beliefs no matter how unpopular, thats where politics fails...and really it is always gonna be that way. If the people get pissed off with politicians they are history at the election but with religion who do they blame? God? That does them no good and ultimately its all about faith, they are accountable to God....politics is made to be different to religion ...in many ways thats bad (but sanely speaking it can't really be any other way in a democracy).

Atleast the pope stuck to his words is what I am saying:)

[Mysterious Otter]

Some thoughts about Terry Schiavo:

The whole thing was handled very badly IMHO. I look at this situation in several different lights. One, it's a wake-up call to everyone to have your wishes made known in writing and officially notarized of what you want done with yourself in the event of a catastrophic accident. While some written documents don't carry as much weight as others, it's still important to get together with your family (yes, spouse, parents, and children) and make sure everyone knows your wishes and is shown your documentation. With medical science making new inroads into life support everyday, it's important to let people know at what point you want doctors to cease and desist.

Second, this is a very unique case. I don't think we should be creating government policy because of one case...or even ten cases. Yes, it is upsetting and has caused a lot of people to question their own morals and beliefs about life and death, but it still boils down to the decision of the individual...and hopefully their decision is in writing!

Finally, I don't think there is any "right" answer here...not in this case anyway. There was always hope that Schiavo would come out of her coma, it's happened in other cases, so I can see where putting her on life support in the first place might have been considered a good option. On the flip side, I'm sure there are many cases where putting someone on life support might not be the best option...'cause once someone is hooked up it practically takes an act of Congress (no pun intended) to legally unhook them. I have other thoughts about this but they are personal in nature and I'll keep 'em to myself. Bottom line, no one should be dictating to us what we should think or feel about Terry Schiavo.

Suffice to say, this case has done some good by making people aware that our plans about our death are almost as important and definitely as necessary as our plans about our life.

[Lord Draud]

erm no there was no chance she would just pop out of her coma and go "hi guys i am back", her brain was dead for long even if the comawas broken she would still be a lump on a log. i think that if that ever happend to me i would want to die on the operating table, once they go well even if he lives he won't be much more then a lump i want them to let me go


as for the pope while i hate his church at elast he kept making progress you know he admited that evolution happend but it was part of gods plan! i love that guy he was a peace keeper and he will be missed!