Americans What has become of your nation?

[TheDragonKnight]

http://www.gemworld.com/USAvsUS.htm


dont click that link yet, infact unless youve got about a good hour or so free come back later, this is going to get involved, lenghty and likely not very pretty.

Im not here to bash Americans or your leaders, this as the section says is a serious discussion, and infact, dont post here if you havent read it, not just skimmed but really READ that site, read whats linked to in the articles for reference, read the testimony of IRS agents, read the cop form alustria telling you what heppened when they passed gun control laws.

find out all kinds of fun things, ive bad mouthed the patriot act in previous posts, but step back and look at what it realy means for you.

did you know that the US has been in a state of emergiency for over 60 years? non stop. although its entirely possible the US has been observing a state of emergiency since the civil war.

Tax paying citizens (residents is now a dirty word) will be espicaly interested in the section covering your income taxes and the legality of the IRS as well as the true nature of the federal reserve.

Your governemnt nolonger works for you, it has enslaved you.

Now if youve got the time to spare read that link then reply, becasue if you come in here and reply without your very likely to put your foot in your mouth.

[bjp4444]

i will fully admit to you that i have not read the entire page yet. it is long, and i will try to get through it. i only post now that i have found on section I have questions on:

Today, almost all mothers, black or white, unknowingly inform on their own babies. Take a look at the so-called "Birth Certificate" CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH where the mother signs and you will see the title of the box stating in small print:
"MOTHER OR OTHER INFORMANT".

The word "OTHER" makes the mother "an informant." By signing the "Birth Certificate" as an informer, she contracts with the government putting her child and her child's future labor as collateral for the national debt (servitude--slavery). The father or mother can rescind the contract within three business days (Truth-in-Lending).

Since the Birth Certificate neither lists the father as the husband nor lists the wife's acceptance of the fathers surnanme as her own but has the mothers maiden name instead, the baby is considered a BASTERD. Bastards are therefore under the care and control of the Priest Rule (democracy) and can be taken from the mother at any time.

The hospitals receive a fairly large monetary benefit ($3,000, more or less, per child) from the corporate government for having Birth Certificates filled out and signed.
I have set two sections in bold italic to ask the following questions:

one: a birth certificate is not a national document, only a state one. i do not see how, unless specified on the document it is between the parent and the national governement, how could the above situation could occur?

two: a "contract", by legal definition, is "...includes every description of agreement, or obligation, whereby one party becomes bound to another to pay a sum of money, or to do or omit to do a certain act; or, a contract is an act which contains a perfect obligation. In its more confined sense, it is an agreement between two or more persons, concerning something to be, done, whereby both parties are hound to each other, *or one is bound to the other." again, unless stated on the document that this is the case (and it isn't, as i'm staring at my birth certificate now), it is not a binding document. Where is the verification of this agreement?

three: The Truth-In-Lending Act was not enacted until 1968. So I'm not sure on the obligations of all peoples born in the US before then. please specify this.

four: The Fourteenth Amendement (which, although the linked site says was never ratified, WAS ratified on July 28, 1868) protects the rights of "bastard" (which is no longer a legal term ((Meriam-Webster))). Therefore, they are no llonger given to anyone for protection or overseeing. In fact, that situation only occured under British common law.

Again, I do disclaim that I have not read the entire page, but it seems to leave a lot out. And the holes in this section give me reason to believe there will be others in the rest.

But interesting discussion nonetheless.

-bjp

[silverDistortioN]

yes, i couldn't bear to read through the whole thing either, but i'm fairly certain that everything that guy says is total bullshit. it sounds like something one of the aluminum hat folk would say.

so anyway, bring up the points one at a time and we'll go ahead and discredit them all for you.

[TheDragonKnight]

well i admit some of it is indeed crap (i couldt care less if bush was an illuminati really, and some of the claims are rather off, however there are some good ones there and as a whole the site points to a disturbing trend in the way america is going.

while some claims arent literly true, i think in essence they are true, while i would tend to doubt your birth certificate amounts to a making you a bonded/indentured service you must admit that with your ever raising takes that you are essientaly working to pay off someone else debt (namely the massive debt the previous admisistration incured) i mean jsut look at the deductions, to a pay check, they are in legion! income tax, taxes on the products you buy (gst and pst here in canada dont know what it is in the US) you have to make payments to things like 401k plans health insurance personal retirment funds, im not acuatly working, and i dont work in the states prehaps someone who is both could tell us how much of the pay check is bring home.

you want me to go through ti and find the good points? ok fine i will, but later :P its almost 3 am, im too bloody tired and it would take me a while to do it all.

however were i an american id be scared the most by the smallest change there, the chaning if unalienable to inaleinable a small small change but it implies so much.

americans as a whole need to stand up and remind their government that it answers to the people not the other way around.

[bjp4444]

here goes:

i take home 78.35% of my gross pay(63% after health insurance). it breaks down this way:

federal income tax: 10% (this fluctuates on your income)
state income tax: 4%
social security tax: 6.2%
medicare tax: 1.45%

after that, i make a health insurannce payment twice a month. (that works out to roughly another 15%), but this is optional. i could be a complete fool and go around without it, but that's not a good idea.

The other options you brought up (401K, etc.) are optional. At this point, I WISH I could make payments in that so I could have some sort of retirement fund, especially with the whole social security stuff (which I don't want to get into, since I haven't read everything one that).

Sales tax is a state issue, there is no federal sales tax. Here in Michigan, it is 6%, and I think we are in the middle of the road.

All for all, I don't think that is too bad. Taxes are essential governement, and depend on how much you want your government to do for you. Personally, I wouldn't mind paying more if I knew I was going to get soemthing like reliable, effecient health care for all or something. Oh, and technically, the previous administration (Clinton) left office with a surplus, therefore there was no debt to pay off. Bush II remains to be seen, but it looks as if the deficit will be back.

And of course, I agree, the American governemental system has problems. Every nation does, I would guess. But again, I appreciate the forum to discuss them.

Peace and Love
-bjp

ps- I couldn't find out, what was the name of the owl god? That ceremony sounds like something the "evil" members here might enjoy.

[TheDragonKnight]

aye alot of americans liek the universal healthcare canada has, but i have to say since it depends on the government to pay for it we get our share of issues with it as well. That every government has its issues is not in doubt and i never meant to imply anything else, but you msut admit that thnsk to bush the americans issues are certianly getting teh most media attention.

in consideration im not going to reproduce any of that site here, its jsut too damn big and is meant to be taken as a whole, skip the free masonry bit if you like ,but it is rather through, and the symboligy on the dolalr bill is interesting to say the least. however is support of this site ive looekd up a few things (the author really should have referenced them himself but oh well)

The tenth amendment states.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

were all intelligent people here i shouldnt have to spell that out for anyone.

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Doesnt that make the patriot act unconstitionital, and infact require individual states to refuse to enforce it?

[silverDistortioN]

well, taken as a whole, the page says that "corporate" america is 1) bad and 2) encroaching on the territory of "original" america.

however, i do think the patriot act is flagrantly reactionary and stands in direct contradiction of the bill of rights... but it's hardly comparable to nazi germany.

[TheDragonKnight]

well its farily obvious the author is going for schock value, but lets look at the patriot act (god i wish i had the actualy text of it)

the act allows for the government to arrest and detainyou, without filing formal charges, without any legal council, no due process, your just locked up not even the phone call, it allows for the search and seizure of your property without a warrant.

Now this may or may not be drastic but this allows for the government to legaly (assuming teh act is legal, it seems to me to be in direct contravention of teh constitution) "disappear" you, you can be arrested, jsut puled off the streets no warning, you dnt get to tell anyone, they can lock you up and throw away the key. you'll never be head from again, then to complete the illusion, confiscate all your property, no trace of you anymore, it would only take a litte effort to remove your electronic papertrail as well.

drastic yes but now a real possibility.

now tell me whats the differnce between what i just outlined and nazi germany rounding up the jews? only difference is that now its a differnt ethnic group.

saying the US is turning into nazi's is going overboard, but you certainly arent following teh grand vision drafted by teh constitution anymore.

[bjp4444]

and i never said i agree with the patriot act. if we can't defend what we call our freedoms without infringing on them, then what's the use?

perhaps this shows that our system is flawed, or perhaps it shows that i'm an idiot.

all i know is gas is around 2.25$ a gallon now, and it's starting to really tick me off, as I have a job where I drive all day. I wish we would stick it to OPEC, use some of our surplus, and drive the price down a little bit.


-bjp

[TheDragonKnight]

sorry never meant to imply anyone agreed wiwth the act.

i agree thers no point in claming freedoms if you dont defend them, but seriosuly the patriot act does more harm than good, you must draw a line somewhere.

your constitution grans you "life liberity and the pursuit of happiness" i dont think the patriot act even comes close to suppourting any of those.

as for the price of gas, ouch man, seriously ouch, makes me gald i take the bus. though its simmilar in canada gas is around 70 or 80 cents a liter now. and i can remeber when you could get it for 35 or less if you looked.

[Lord Draud]

well at least one good thing came out of teh act, it makes canada look that much better LOL, i personaly think that the people controling Bush are a bunch of corprate big wigs that look at Hitlers plans and go "hey there is something we can use why didn't we think of that!" i know that if iwas a american i would be looking for a new place to live cause you guys have 4 more years of this shit to deal with, the land ofteh free is being comeing very quickly the land of the paranoira